To ask the Minister of Finance for his response to the Fiscal Council’s assessment of the 2022-25 Draft Budget regarding proposed allocations to the Department of Justice.

Mr C Murphy (The Minister of Finance)

I did not have the opportunity to be in the Chamber yesterday, so, before I answer the question, I want to add my condolences to those offered to the family, friends and colleagues of Christopher Stalford on his very sad loss. We will all be poorer for his passing. I have noted the views of the Fiscal Council and its view that the Department of Justice has done less well than other Departments when considering the combined impact of the required 2% savings and the general allocations provided. It is, however, worth noting that the Fiscal Council’s assessment did not take into account the other significant funding that was proposed for DOJ in the draft Budget, namely £44·4 million for the PSNI and £10·7 million for work on reducing and preventing domestic and sexual abuse. Further to that, DOJ would continue to receive security funding, which provides £31·2 million per annum for the three years outlined in the Budget. Of course, many pressures remain, and, throughout the Budget process, I have highlighted the significant financial challenges that we face. Simply, it remains the case that the funding available to us falls well short of what is required. As such, we must prioritise expenditure. On that issue, the Executive have consistently indicated that the priority is Health. The draft Budget reflected that, with the Department of Health receiving additional funding significantly above that received under Barnett. To do that, savings from other Departments, including the Department of Justice, were necessary. I welcome the views of the Fiscal Council and, indeed, all respondents to the draft Budget consultation. Those will be fully considered as and when the final Budget proposals are developed. It will be imperative that the Executive work collectively to find solutions to the financial challenges faced.

Mr C Murphy

I agree that we need a Budget. We need to ensure that there is an Executive in place to achieve that. I have taken advice on whether the Assembly can proceed with the Budget, but I have been advised that that is not possible. I agree with the Member that we need to ensure that communities are safe and protected. I have paused — not terminated — the consultation on the Budget. There is still a facility in the Department to receive input if people want to continue to make their views known on it, but there is no point in putting the Department and other public bodies through the process of responding to a Budget when the Executive are not in place to do anything about it. I hope, however that sense will prevail and that we will return at an early opportunity to deal with the Budget properly.

Mr McGuigan

Minister, the independent Fiscal Council said that a multi-year Budget provided a "golden opportunity" to reform public services, including to reform and improve our health service. Does he agree that it is disgraceful that this golden opportunity has been jeopardised by the DUP's reckless and selfish decision to collapse the Executive?

Mr C Murphy

We have long recognised that the health service needs support in dealing with big issues such as cancer treatment, waiting lists and mental health provision. We have also recognised that transforming health services, as we have long wanted to do, would require multi-annual funding, and that recurrent funding is needed to allow us to employ the staff required to do that.

There was the opportunity now, after a long number of years, to do that by getting the Budget agreed and by giving that certainty not just to the Health Department but to a whole range of Departments and other bodies that rely on funding through Departments. The fact that that certainty is not going to be there is, I think, a huge wasted opportunity. I could see some logic in the decision to pull out of the Executive if that were actually influencing the protocol negotiations, but they are going on regardless of what is happening in this institution. Surely, the logic is to come back in, get the Executive working and try to ensure that it is not the case that the only people who are being punished as a result of the standstill are the people whom we collectively represent.

Mr Speaker

I call Dolores Kelly.

Mrs D Kelly

I have been caught in the wrong spot altogether. On the recommendations for the Budget, the Department of Justice is saying that the Prison Service and, more particularly, the Police Service deal with vulnerable people, as you know and as I said before. What representations and recommendations have you had from the Fiscal Council about dealing with people with vulnerabilities across the piece?

Mr C Murphy

The Fiscal Council did not get into making any recommendations on the Budget. It noted that the Department of Justice was particularly pressed, and I recognise that, if we were going to make the big commitment that we wanted to make and given that all parties agreed that Health should be the priority, that would put strain on other Departments. None of the Departments were receiving a reduction; they were all to receive an increase, but that increase was not at a level that Justice would need in order to do all the important things that it does. We had about £300 million additional to take into next year, so we had the opportunity to take that and allocate it to try to ease some of those pressures. That would have been very important for justice and policing to supplement their budgets, certainly for next year, but we will not now have the opportunity to do that either, and that is regrettable.